Questionnaire about Contribution System (Repository Section)

[Admin]

Thanks for every member who help to keep the community better. I received many suggestions and feedback about our beta contribution system.
There are a few issues I want to discuss. Your feedback will be able to change our new improved contribution system.

Different Parties, Different Interests
We have different kinds of members, with different levels:
The empty-handed. They don't have anything good to share.
Normal members who have some goodies only
Collectors who have many goodies
The gods who have nearly every piece of trading stuff available on this planet
Different people have different goals and we need balance different parties' interests.

The complaints/worries are summarised as follows:
Behaviour 1: intentionally keeps the best things and share all the worst stuff (craps and oldies) to get to the highest level
Behaviour 2: intentionally shares only parts of the stuff
Behaviour 3: intentionally shares bad stuff, wrong stuff, or give misinformation
Link Thief: they only steal links from public places and repost here. They don't even care to spend time to reupload and provide good release description
Craps for Gold: Someone who supplies the best and rare stuff will get annoyed when he sees everyone is sharing craps to get his "gold"
Empty-handed and truly have nothing or very little to share
Since we are open to the public now, how can we sort out the above problems?
Do you have any ideas to solve it?

Let's brainstorming. There are some possible solutions:
Topped: Sharing a certain quality of stuff can only lead you to a certain level.
Regressive Return: initially you can get a good amount of award for sharing normal things, but returns will drop as you proceed
Different Zones: Separate software into different zones. Different zones have different requirements for promotion
Others? Please specify.
Difficulty of the contribution system
What do you think about the difficulty of the contribution system? Is it too hard or still acceptable?

(A) My current idea is to make it easier for low and middle range but harder for high range. What do you think?

(B) I think I should make the system easier but in what way. Which one do you prefer:
Harder to get promoted, but once you are at the top, you can get (leech) many things until you need to contribute a few to refill your wealth.
Faster to get promoted, but every piece of stuff will be much costlier. That would mean you may contribute every time you want to get a few stuff.
(C) To solve the "craps for gold" problems, I think I will set additional requirements on high-end stuff. It should also stimulate people to share their best things first.

I will think of a way so a normal member without special/good stuff can still get in. But please notice that it will be much harder than, for example, reposting books on the Internet. Currently it only takes time but no one will stop you to get to the top by posting books only (craps for gold).

By the way, I know other sites will only reserve the high-end stuff so no one can actually get it. Is this an acceptable deal (and you can still get them for *free*) for you?

Note: We only focus on repository section this time.

[Fx_Gold]

Thanks for every member who help to keep the community better. I received many suggestions and feedback about our beta contribution system.
There are a few issues I want to discuss. Your feedback will be able to change our new improved contribution system.

Different Parties, Different Interests
We have different kinds of members, with different levels:
The empty-handed. They don't have anything good to share.
Normal members who have some goodies only
Collectors who have many goodies
The gods who have nearly every piece of trading stuff available on this planetDifferent people have different goals and we need balance different parties' interests.

The complaints/worries are summarised as follows:
Behaviour 1: intentionally keeps the best things and share all the worst stuff (craps and oldies) to get to the highest level
Behaviour 2: intentionally shares only parts of the stuff
Behaviour 3: intentionally shares bad stuff, wrong stuff, or give misinformation
Link Thief: they only steal links from public places and repost here. They don't even care to spend time to reupload and provide good release description
Craps for Gold: Someone who supplies the best and rare stuff will get annoyed when he sees everyone is sharing craps to get his "gold"
Empty-handed and truly have nothing or very little to shareSince we are open to the public now, how can we sort out the above problems?
Do you have any ideas to solve it?

Let's brainstorming. There are some possible solutions:
Topped: Sharing a certain quality of stuff can only lead you to a certain level.
Regressive Return: initially you can get a good amount of award for sharing normal things, but returns will drop as you proceed
Different Zones: Separate software into different zones. Different zones have different requirements for promotionFx_Gold : Well, could be a ( partial or temporary ) solution to People getting Very Good / Rare stuff ( traders Software ) , just by having posted lots and lots of very common stuff ( books for example ) ....

I don't think that allowing people to post books, and to get in exchange TOP stuff would be really fair....

UNLESS the books / courses posted would be really EXCEPTIONAL.

Others? Please specify.


OK...Trying to find new ways of sharing : :):D

Applying a dual-level or Tri-level AWARD process....

Implies that all the stuff posted is divised in ( for example ) 3 categories :

TOP - Median - Low or *** - ** - *

So, if a guy posts some stuff valued at 20000 Wealth, in TOP categorie, he will be able to get in exchange 1 TOP stuff of the same value, or 2 MEDIAN stuff , or 3 LOW stuff

If a guy posts some stuff valued at 20000 Wealth, in MEDIAN categorie, he will be able to get in exchange 1 MEDIAN stuff of the same value (or lower of course ), or 2 LOW stuff....

etc...

A possibility to get TOP stuff without posting in TOP categorie could be excluded, to avoid misuse / abuse....Or at least, it should be a very High RATIO :

example : you post 5 MEDIAN stuff, to get 1 TOP stuff....:rolleyes:



Difficulty of the contribution system
What do you think about the difficulty of the contribution system? Is it too hard or still acceptable?

(A) My current idea is to make it easier for low and middle range but harder for high range. What do you think?

(B) I think I should make the system easier but in what way. Which one do you prefer:
Harder to get promoted, but once you are at the top, you can get (leech) many things until you need to contribute a few to refill your wealth.
Faster to get promoted, but every piece of stuff will be much costlier. That would mean you may contribute every time you want to get a few stuff.(C) To solve the "craps for gold" problems, I think I will set additional requirements on high-end stuff. It should also stimulate people to share their best things first.

I will think of a way so a normal member without special/good stuff can still get in. But please notice that it will be much harder than, for example, reposting books on the Internet. Currently it only takes time but no one will stop you to get to the top by posting books only (craps for gold).

By the way, I know other sites will only reserve the high-end stuff so no one can actually get it. Is this an acceptable deal (and you can still get them for *free*) for you?

Note: We only focus on repository section this time.

[aldebaran]

A possibility to get TOP stuff without posting in TOP categorie could be excluded, to avoid misuse / abuse


I don't agree. Very few people have "TOP" stuff (and there are very few such stuff generally!) but many have "Middle" or "Low" stuff. And the main reason for share it for those people is the possibility to get TOP stuff (even if it's quite difficult). If they will not have such possibility they will have no reason to share many things and there will be very little activity and few stuff in this forum (even if this stuff will be the TOP level stuff which only lie in repository and nobody actually download it).

[amanda]

The complaints/worries are summarised as follows:
Behaviour 1: intentionally keeps the best things and share all the worst stuff (craps and oldies) to get to the highest level
Behaviour 2: intentionally shares only parts of the stuff
Behaviour 3: intentionally shares bad stuff, wrong stuff, or give misinformation
Link Thief: they only steal links from public places and repost here. They don't even care to spend time to reupload and provide good release description
Craps for Gold: Someone who supplies the best and rare stuff will get annoyed when he sees everyone is sharing craps to get his "gold"
Empty-handed and truly have nothing or very little to shareSince we are open to the public now, how can we sort out the above problems?
Do you have any ideas to solve it?My two cents:
Give more rewards for good stuff, and half the wards for craps and oldies
Don't give rewards or very little
Penalty
Don't give rewards or very little
Set harder requirements (see below)
Set harder requirements but still allow them to get in other ways (see below)What about this method?

Reserve the top stuff. Set some requirements, for example, 9 high-quality contributions have been made to get this. People need to send requests so moderators approve case by case.

Transferring common books or sharing crappy software are not qualified and the problems of "craps for gold" are solved.

High-quality contributions are not limited to sharing only. Other good and unique contributions can be considered too. For example, writing a trading blog, sharing good trading ideas, write tutorials to teach people how to trade.

Another idea is to set a time limit. Members without good contributions can still get the top stuff but after a certain period of time (eg half year). If they have good stuff in hand, they will seriously consider sharing them out first unless they want to wait so long.

[amanda]

Your comments doesn't help to solve the above-mentioned problems. There is no solution. Who are going to contribute if they know they can only get common books and oldies? The good members will leave.

I don't agree. Very few people have "TOP" stuff (and there are very few such stuff generally!) but many have "Middle" or "Low" stuff.

Where are the "Middle" stuff? New members are currently exploiting and only sharing "Low" stuff. How are you going to solve the problems?

And the main reason for share it for those people is the possibility to get TOP stuff (even if it's quite difficult). If they will not have such possibility they will have no reason to share many things and there will be very little activity

There should be a way but definitely not by sharing craps.

and few stuff in this forum (even if this stuff will be the TOP level stuff which only lie in repository and nobody actually download it).

If you can share "middle" or "high" graded stuff, why not?

[secret_master]

I agree. It's pretty easy to get the best and rarest stuff by giving "air". It should be harder to get those stuff. We leave the work for you with regard to HOW to resolve the imbalance problem. I trust you. ;)

[marketmakerZ]

Hi guys,

as just a few people know who I am and the most people here just think I'm a ... I'll take the right (freedom of speech :cool:) to say unfiltered what I think!

Before I start I would like to thank my friend for inviting me to that place and the Admin for his great idea/project.
Last but not least I would like to thank the moderators - even we have or hopefully had problems - for their good and hard work and we all have to forgive them if they make a mistake or threat us wrong because they're also just human beings :D!!!

Here are my - live & raw brainstormed - own 2 cents:

1. Knowledge (usual & normally free available stuff) should be easily available for all members which have at least 11 experience!

2. all stuff even TradeStation v8.3 latest build for an example should be easier to get for sharing members. WHY...it's easy - the main goal of that board here is originally to nuke the software sellers business but that goes actually in the wrong way :eek:! BBS sets all TS stuff right to VIP status and there's just one small board and a blog who deliver TS for FREE...

3. People who just re-upload books from other sources like AVAX, BBS, BLOGs and other FREE available sources should never be able to get more than 500 experience (I thinks it's fair when I mean that the usual KNOWLEDGE stuff [rare stuff & courses excluded!] just can make 50% (I personally think 40% because there are some unique stuff here) of the maximun of 999!

4. Objecticity is what we need then I saw too much subjectivity and that is frustrating and demotivating for some of the new members! No fear, I experienced by myself :p...

5. Some of the "tests" are not really 100% or correct and so I think some of us should give the moderators a helping hand on testing the stuff then some members have a huge specific knowledge:cool:!

6. Friends or not but I really thinks that it's ridiculous if free available, easy to get or old stuff becomes an HighLight (the starting-time of the thread is the mark!) or gets at least good experience & wealth...I saw a lot of them:cool:!

7. We also should support members who have just a few good stuff - that means as an example: a new member has "just :eek:" NeuroShell Day Trader v5.3 and he wants one of our Top-Stuff...I mean he should have it and we have another great app for our board.

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10. the moderators should respect the original experience and wealth setting of a member for his stuff. Just when a member sets the limits TOO HIGH the moderators have the right to correct it. If a member sets it TOO LOW the moderators have to make a little note (rare, exclusive or anything else) so the member can understand it ;)!

11. Each stuff posted by a member above 999 experience should be seen as "special" by our mods - that means that a new member who has also the same "latest" or "rare" (at the same time even when it's already placed by a >999member in submission area!!! Look that happend to me with the optionetics DVD's [in submission area by our respected moderators and so my thread got dumped:D]) stuff get awarded like the >999 member and not dumped :p...I think we shouldn't make the same pressure than others ;)

12. I have some other ideas but I'll wait till response...

have a good day

mmZ


I know some of you would like to see me burn or leave...4get it:D!!!

[Admin]

Thanks for everyone about your comments, and I'm unable to reply to each other in details. It's pretty hard to satisfy all requirements in one single system.

No one specifically tells us abut their wishes on those issues:
(A) My current idea is to make it easier for low and middle range but harder for high range. What do you think?

(B) I think I should make the system easier but in what way. Which one do you prefer:
Harder to get promoted, but once you are at the top, you can get (leech) many things until you need to contribute a few to refill your wealth.
Faster to get promoted, but every piece of stuff will be much costlier. That would mean you may contribute every time you want to get a few stuff.(C) To solve the "craps for gold" problems, I think I will set additional requirements on high-end stuff. It should also stimulate people to share their best things first.I want to try to make as many members happy as possible.

My current proposal:
Making it faster to promote for low/mid-level stuff.
For high-level stuff, it depends on user wishes. If they want "protection" (ie they don't want to leak their stuff easily), they can inform us and we will add protective conditions, for example users can't share only books or oldies to get new stuff which are too unfair in some members' views. Regarding what contributions are deemed to be fair (so they can get the high-level stuff), we can discuss it *
For people who share high-level stuff BUT want it to be easily available, they can still inform us about their wishes, so even a normal member can get it.*: Sharing good stuff is the most wanted requirement. The good stuff will be defined to stuff which are set over certain experience levels. HOWEVER a normal member without good stuff WILL STILL BE ABLE to get in other ways. For example, if you are a trader, you can write unqiue trading articles or blogs which add special values to the community. These can be discussed too.

What do you think? Agree or disagree?

Please feel free to express your opinions so I can incorporate yours before I make a big change which both parties will accept.

If you are worried that you may be revenged for making comments, you may send your comments at http://www.friendlytraders.com/forum/79-private-confidential-support

You may also send your comments via Contact Us (http://www.friendlytraders.com/forum/sendmessage.php) form anonymously.

Thank you.

[bjh1004]

I added my guessing percentage of each levels.


We have different kinds of members, with different levels:
The empty-handed. They don't have anything good to share. (20~30%)
Normal members who have some goodies only (60~70%)
Collectors who have many goodies (Less than 5%)
The gods who have nearly every piece of trading stuff available on this planet (Less than 1%)

It may not the exact %, but isn't it clear what this forum targets for?
Normally we acts for "the greatest happiness of the greatest number."


(A) My current idea is to make it easier for low and middle range but harder for high range. What do you think?

(B) I think I should make the system easier but in what way. Which one do you prefer:
Harder to get promoted, but once you are at the top, you can get (leech) many things until you need to contribute a few to refill your wealth.
Faster to get promoted, but every piece of stuff will be much costlier. That would mean you may contribute every time you want to get a few stuff.(C) To solve the "craps for gold" problems, I think I will set additional requirements on high-end stuff. It should also stimulate people to share their best things first.


Plz make it simple & think by majority's side.

If I share $1,000 worthy stuff, then I expect to get $1,000 worthy stuff, too.
If I just have $100 worthy stuffs, but want to get $1,000 worthy stuff,
then I have to share 10 x "$100" stuffs to get $1,000 worthy stuff.

Isn't it fair?

Asking users share 30 - 50 good stuffs first without any rewards is not fair.
(Your current ranking system is like this...+1 ~ +30 exp max for good stuffs,
990 requirement for downloading...)
IMHO, it's not a contribution system, it's a squeezing system.

Plz think as normal member's point of view.
80-90% of members just have 2-3 good stuffs, and 10-20 olddies.
Do you really think normal member can be achieve TOP level under this current ranking system?


HOWEVER a normal member without good stuff WILL STILL BE ABLE to get in other ways. For example, if you are a trader, you can write unqiue trading articles or blogs which add special values to the community. These can be discussed too.


Do you REALLY think so?
How many articles do you think can be written by NORMAL member?
Only a good articles get rewards, and it's also very hard to write good articles.
If I can write 1 good trading article per month, when do I expect to be a GOOD member? (+5 exp x 12 = 60 per year, that is to say, 15 years after I'll be a good member...LOL)

Last comments,
Plz respect the original experience and wealth setting of a member for his stuff.

Sorry about my aggressive words.
One of your staff invite me to this site, and at first, I also have a good impression. But after understanding your ranking system, I disappointed a lot and it makes me aggressive.

Best Regards,
bjh1004

[amanda]

Asking users share 30 - 50 good stuffs first without any rewards is not fair.I don't understand why you say you get no rewards. There are a variety of software at different levels. Some good software are set at low levels too. Try to search for Amibroker, MetaStock, Wealth-Lab etc.

If you are sharing 30-50 good stuff, you are already at the top long ago.

(Your current ranking system is like this...+1 ~ +30 exp max for good stuffs,
990 requirement for downloading...)
IMHO, it's not a contribution system, it's a squeezing system.The highest is 50 experience. Even a book gets 5 experiences which is too much. :mad:

Once you shared 20-29 good stuff you don't get one only. You can access ALL of them.



Plz think as normal member's point of view.
80-90% of members just have 2-3 good stuffs, and 10-20 olddies.
Do you really think normal member can be achieve TOP level under this current ranking system?
Why not? They can do even by sharing books and craps only :eek:. Did you hear I'm complaining to the admin about it? He is currently allow anyone to share about 100-150 craps to get all the gold here. How ridiculous! Admin must plug this hole ASAP.

No member will share their best stuff if they know they can only get craps.

No forum will allow this thing from happening. Tell me which site allows sharing books for rare software!

We must change his minds.


How many articles do you think can be written by NORMAL member?
Only a good articles get rewards, and it's also very hard to write good articles.
If I can write 1 good trading article per month, when do I expect to be a GOOD member? (+5 exp x 12 = 60 per year, that is to say, 15 years after I'll be a good member...LOL)I don't understand why it takes one month to write an article only. This article must be made of gold.

If you spend 1 hour to write an article, 5 exp x 1 hour = 200 hours only.

OK! Not easy but I think you can get to the top after about 3 months.

In fact admin shouldn't allow members getting to the top by writing articles only. How can you judge which article is written by the member. There are so many articles on the Internet. I can copy one and claim it's written by me and get free 5 exp. How easy to get to the top. We will only create a new hole called "article exploit".

Do you swap an article for a software? Of course not. If they want to get trading resources share trading resources too. Simple yet important concept.


Last comments,
Plz respect the original experience and wealth setting of a member for his stuff.
I think admin allows this if you states it.

[padawan]

even though I'm new to this board, I wanted to add my 2c too.

First thank you to the moderators for their time and work.

then,

I am what you would call an 'empty-handed'. I am a full time trader and I am interested in this community in part to find free valuable stuff to try but also to be in contact with other folks interested in trading.

Unless people on this board are cracking themselves, all the stuff are coming from somewhere else and they are reposting it here. To take the reward system to the extreme, you will share the best stuff with other crackers who most probably don't use them in their trading and could probably crack them themselves while the traders who are focused on their market, indicators and results will most probably turn to google to find something to share to increase their points and will not be able to get the good stuff. So here's a question I ask: Is the community interested to gather crackers or traders?

Beside that, I find the reward system to play a usefull role as I believe that it make sense to have new member proove they are valuable to the community.

so to resume what I think:
1. I do support the reward system as a proof of good faith to new members
2. I am against the leveling (best contributor only have access to best stuff) in the reward system as I see it against the forum philosophy

3. an idea to further brainstorm: after first 30 days following subscription. every new member get's a poll on him and if 25% think he is not valuable to the community (based on his posting). he is taken out. would that be an incentive to have true contributing members?

Hope this helps.